Aug. 5, 2025
Christian Ethics in the Wild West of Cryptocurrency
Send us a text What happens when Reformed Christians enter the wild west of cryptocurrency? This episode brings together Jordan Bush, director of Thank God for Bitcoin, and Chance Summers, creator of the 1689 meme coin, for a fascinating exploration of Christian ethics in digital finance. The conversation quickly moves beyond surface-level arguments to probe deeper questions: Does Bitcoin represent a more ethical form of money than meme coins? Can Christians participate in cryptocurrency wit...
What happens when Reformed Christians enter the wild west of cryptocurrency? This episode brings together Jordan Bush, director of Thank God for Bitcoin, and Chance Summers, creator of the 1689 meme coin, for a fascinating exploration of Christian ethics in digital finance.
The conversation quickly moves beyond surface-level arguments to probe deeper questions: Does Bitcoin represent a more ethical form of money than meme coins? Can Christians participate in cryptocurrency without compromising biblical principles? When does risk-taking cross the line from wise stewardship to foolish speculation?
Jordan articulates concerns about meme coins, suggesting they operate as "mini Federal Reserves" that can be manipulated by creators. He questions whether Christians should participate in systems that potentially enable some to profit at others' expense. His memorable comment that "Judas would make a meme coin" encapsulates his skepticism about the ethics of creating tokens with no inherent value.
Chance offers a compelling counternarrative, describing how 1689 coin evolved from a joke into a community-building project with growing utility. He argues that transparency about risks combined with community safeguards creates an ethical framework for Christian participation. His optimistic vision suggests believers should redeem financial spaces rather than abandon them to non-believers.
Whether you're a cryptocurrency enthusiast, a Christian wrestling with financial ethics, or simply curious about how faith intersects with modern finance, this conversation offers valuable insights without easy answers. Listen in and join the ongoing dialogue about how believers can navigate the digital economy with wisdom and integrity.
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00:00 - Episode Introduction
04:14 - The 1689 Coin Origin Story
07:41 - What is a Meme Coin?
15:15 - Bitcoin vs Meme Coins Ethics
24:17 - Community Value and Risks
37:57 - Christian Stewardship and Risk
50:54 - Biblical Principles for Money
01:02:58 - The Future of Christian Currency
01:10:17 - Final Thoughts and Book Recommendations
WEBVTT
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Yo, it's Deadman walkin', steppin' to the light.
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Greg Moore on the mic.
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Keep the truth in sight.
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Theology politics doctrine is tight.
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Reform on sharp cuttin' wrong from the right.
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Current events with a biblical lens, where the word don't bend and the truth defends.
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Deadman walkin'.
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We were lost in sin, but grace broke chains.
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Now the journey begins.
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Yo yo yo.
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Welcome everyone to the live stream.
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Welcome to the walking podcast.
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As always, you can find out more about us at dmwpodcastcom Coming to you on a special live stream.
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Usually we pre-record, but this week we're doing it live, as we say.
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Guys, thanks for sharing with a friend, thanks for liking and commenting and all the different things that you do to help us grow.
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We do appreciate it Got two friends here.
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I want to say up front, full disclosure.
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We're going to be talking about Bitcoin and 1689 coin and meme coins and cryptocurrency and all those things.
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Is it biblical?
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Is it Christian?
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What, what?
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What are we doing here in this, uh, 2025, as believers?
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Um, and I we're.
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We're probably gonna have some disagreements here, but I do want to keep it friendly.
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Um, everyone who's watching or listening, um, feel free to comment.
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We're going to get to maybe questions and answers uh, after, but full disclosure.
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I've had uh, both had both Jordan Bush and Chance Summers on the podcast.
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Before I call them both friends.
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In fact, I think both of them have sponsored the podcast in some way or another in years past, so this is fun, but I think we have some disagreements between them.
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And I said you guys just got to come online and chop it up and we'll hopefully create some good content for the people following and listening.
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But we do have Chance Summers is the owner of 1689 Cigars, majority owner of the 1689 coin, which will be of much discussion tonight, and then also Jordan Bush, director of Thank God for Bitcoin, author of the gospel according to Bitcoin 21 meditations, and I know Chance wanted to get into that book a little bit as well too.
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So maybe we'll hit it all.
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But, like I said, this is informal, not really debate, but I do want to give you guys each a chance to kind of tell the people who you are, what you kind of represent and maybe what you want to kind of cover on this live stream, just for those watching.
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We're going to try to keep it to 60 minutes.
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I don't want to go too much longer than that.
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If we finish up before that, that's fine too.
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But we're going to start with Jordan and then we'll move to Chance.
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Jordan just give us a little I don't know a couple minute intro for us.
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Yeah, I feel like a mosquito in the nudist colony, right, that's kind of the situation I find myself in.
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There's so much we could talk about in only my name is Jordan Bush.
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I was a pastor and church pointing missionary living in Montevideo, uruguay, for about seven years and then, near the end of our time there, I ended up getting into Bitcoin and basically just saw the ways and the applications of Bitcoin and all kinds of surprising, just ways in terms of helping just people who've had their currency debased be able to save in a way that governments can't take away, just to help nonprofit organizations be able to just again do the same thing saving money framework that a lot of people, including a lot of people who don't care at all about Jesus, they look at Bitcoin and they look at the crypto space and they see something very different than what I see and what I think Christians ought to see, and so that's kind of where I'm coming at is you know there's you can look at some of the space and just think it's.
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You know a lot of fun and games and, uh, you know potential to to get rich quickly, and this is what a lot of people associate with the space more broadly.
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Uh, there's just a lot more going on, and so that's kind of what I, that's kind of why I reached out and thought it was worth the time to talk.
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So okay, chance, how about you Give us a little info, give us a little origin story or a little bit about what we're talking about tonight?
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Yeah.
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So I think we had this conversation come up because I got some screenshots of a post that you did about Judas would make a meme coin, and then I thought that would be hilarious to actually talk about this.
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And full disclosure.
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You know, jordan's my friend as long as he's not related to George Bush.
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I think I made that in a comment section.
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Friend as long as he's not related to George Bush, I think I made that in a comment section.
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And so I was sitting in the cigar lounge and I thought, you know, I've been talking about doing a meme coin for months with my buddies and I was like, hey, we'll just do it.
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So we sent it, launched it, it gained some traction, and then the ethics debate of are meme coins moral?
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Is Bitcoin pure and meme coins not?
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And things of that nature started sprouting, which I didn't mean the start of brothers war, but apparently, uh, that is what has transpired over the last couple weeks.
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So there's an origin story okay, first question for chance.
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I kind of want to know what.
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What are we talking about when we say 1689 coin?
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What is a meme coin?
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For those who might not know?
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Um, and, and then maybe, maybe we just get right to it and go well, this is why I'm doing it and this is why I think it falls within good Christian principles or biblical principles.
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Yeah.
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So a meme coin's digital art has no essential value besides what the community brings to it, and so there is no utility for typical meme coins at the start of them.
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And then, as they grow and they get a backing, they move into different utilities, such as Doge or Shiba Inu.
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They can be used as a tipping system, things of that nature.
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There's more things you can do with Doge than you can with Shiba.
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And then you have Pepe, you have all these other larger coins that grow to billion dollar market caps.
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That started off as meme coins and then they become a community and a system by which people can use for monetary uh purchases, things of that nature.
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So 1689 coin is right now in considering of art.
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It's not a mona lisa like doge would be, it's more of like grandma's finger painting.
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And as it grows and people see, hey, this is actually a beautiful project, then people will buy in, be interested in it and they enter into the community and then eventually there'll be utility uh that is implemented into the coin okay, and what do you mean by utility?
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just for those who might not know?
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yeah, so utility would be simplistic, like we just implemented a thing on our back end for some of our online businesses between different guys that are in the 1689 coin chat, where they can accept 1689 coin as a payment.
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Obviously, when somebody accepts 1689 coin, they have to bring it to the blockchain, sell it and then convert it to USDA or convert it to Bitcoin or convert it to XRP whatever whatever coin that you're using at that point or you can throw it into like cryptocom and you can convert it to Bitcoin or convert it to XRP, whatever coin that you're using at that point or you can throw it into cryptocom and you can convert it to cash and put it on your debit card.
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So there's a lot of uses for meme coins.
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There's a lot of money in meme coins.
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So Jordan is not without cause to say that people do think it's a get-rich-quick scheme and in some instances, like the Hawk2A coin, there was just one that was called the Worthless coin that just went on, that had a rug pull.
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So there are a lot of dangers.
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There's a lot of risk with meme coins and you can whatever you invest in a meme coin, you definitely Oops.
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Oh, I think you threw, it.
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It is super high.
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Can you hear me now?
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We lost you for about the last 10, 15 seconds.
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There You're getting a little grainy.
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I'm not sure what's going on.
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Yeah, so I was just saying that meme coins are like volcanoes they can erupt and be great or they can just stay dormant and never do anything.
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Okay.
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So, Jordan, from your comment that says you know Judas would probably make a meme coin, it sounds to me like you're not a fan uh.
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Bitcoin but not a fan of maybe something like this.
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So where are you coming from on this subject?
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Yeah, so with.
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I do want to talk about that specific comment.
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So I had seen and I've been thinking about uh 1689 coin.
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It did inspire the thought Uh, but I what I was not trying to say is that chance is Judas, okay, like, what I'm saying is Jude.
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Like the whole point of meme coins, the reason they exist is to create pump and dump opportunities to make lots of money very quickly with no effort.
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That's why these things were created in the first place.
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Again, the vast majority of there's there's hundreds of thousands of them and the vast majority of them are worth nothing.
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They start out, they have a pump and then they have a crash and a very small group of the people who own the coin get fabulously wealthy.
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The rest of them are left holding the bag full of something that's worthless.
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So, again, it's just the type of thing that Judas would do.
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We know Judas was stealing from the common purse, so Judas was totally up for using his position as somebody who had an advantage over the other people whose money he had to uh, to take advantage of it.
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And so I've just was simply saying that this is the exact type of thing that Judas would do.
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That does not mean that that is that everyone who creates a, an alt coin, is equally desiring to absolutely rug, uh, anyone who's participating in and I don't attribute to the fact that chance or anybody else in this project uh, is trying to fully rug anybody.
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So that might hopefully, you know, calm some of the, I don't know, some of the disagreement, but like, I don't think that's necessarily the case at all.
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I think the thing that I would want to ask is I mean, and the thing that I just have observed, as somebody who is a Facebook friend of chance and I just see this, you know, see, I've seen the, the, the project, if we can call it that, like develop over the last few weeks has just been kind of like, what is the motivation for the, for the project?
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Because that seems to have like evolved in some way, and maybe it hasn't evolved, and that's just a function of.
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You know, you can only talk about certain things at certain times.
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So, kind of I just want to maybe just that'd be the most helpful place, like what is, what is the or what is was and is the desire for the token, because initially, the thing, you know, you came out and said, hey, this thing has no value.
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You know, feel free, just to know that it's super volatile.
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You could, you know you could lose everything you put your money in.
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And then there's been more talked about where now we're going to give it utility by putting it into the ecosystem, we're going to let you pay on our website, we're going to let you pay on this conference, and so just the way that it's being talked about, it seems to be moving from hey, this is totally a joke that has no value whatsoever, this is a scam, to now there is this utility function that is talked about seemingly with a desire to encourage more participation in it, and so that's kind of where I start to get more uncomfortable, especially given some of the things that are being said, where, again, some of these are memes and this is, I would imagine, just jokes.
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But for people who are just coming across these things I talk with people all the time who have no concept and no understanding of cryptocurrencies.
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They don't know why one is more valuable than the other it all just seems like pretty arbitrary.
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And so when they see something like I believe it was 1689 coin account, which apparently I think you said you don't actually control the account, but somebody posted it, basically said that 1689 coin is better than Bitcoin.
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Bitcoin is a boomer coin.
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It's an old coin.
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Don't deal with that boomer thing.
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Buy into, get on the ground floor of this.
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The next new thing Again, obviously there are people in your circles who fully understand and appreciate that you're joking, I think, but then there's other people who just don't know, and so they're, you know, tempted to maybe believe something like that.
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And so, again, it's the people who are potentially going to get rugged.
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And even if you're not intending that and you wouldn't do that which I'm again not attributing you're, you're having a desire to do that or saying that you would do that, but that is something that is certainly there and so, yeah, that's kind of.
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So maybe just answer that question Like what?
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Is this something that, in your mind, has evolved over time, the purpose of it, or has this been something that you've kind of wanted to from the very beginning?
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You said thought we could implement into our ecosystem?
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Yeah, so I'm guessing you're familiar with meme coins, right?
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Yeah, are you talking to me or Greg?
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Yeah, to you, jordan.
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And so the meme coin can be that of a mosquito or it can have longevity, and so the community is what drives a meme coin.
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So when you have 50, 60 guys messaging you saying, hey, I want to implement this somehow in my business or I want to implement this somehow in this, you don't put out the fire.
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You let them do what they want to do.
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It's a natural progression, just like Bitcoin.
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Natural progression of Bitcoin is growing to be utility things of that nature.
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And then you say things like this is a previous conversation we had earlier today that Bitcoin can't be manipulated by one person.
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But there are instances where people have pulled 5,000 Bitcoin, manipulated the market down to.
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I think it was like 63K and then it went down to 58K and then they bought in from that same wallet at that 58K to go back up.
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So the Bitcoin and the meme coin market can be manipulated, but it's at a very mass scale, and when you think of Bitcoin, it's controlled by 92,.
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92% of Bitcoin is controlled by 10 wallets or 10 companies I, I don't know what that is.
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I think it's 10 companies and so like there's an 8% that owns Bitcoin, and then if you don't think those 10% can manipulate the coin, you're absolutely ludicrous, like you're crazy.
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So I think the argument is do you manipulate it at a small amount or a large amount?
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And it can it be done?
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Is is yes, both meme coin and Bitcoin can in some sense be manipulated, and so a lot of people say, hey, a meme coin can be manipulated.
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If I were to pull out what I had in there, it would tank the coin.
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So I don't see the difference in crypto.
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Besides, I did read some of your works where you're saying that Bitcoin is produced by energy.
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It has a cap.
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There are certain things that there's actually working on it, but when you have a project like this, there's people that are working on this.
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They're building website, they're building out bots, they're building out things that are very good for the ecosystem.
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1689 coin.
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So people are actually working and I don't think you can determine value because a coin is mined and uses energy.
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I think it's by what you labor with.
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Sure, yeah.
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So my pushback on that would be the problem with this particular coin and this applies to all coins basically is that there is a monopoly on the creation of the supply.
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You are the only person who can create, who is able to create new units of this currency.
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So you had a monopoly on this.
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You created 1689 coin with, I believe, a billion coin cap, with, I believe, a billion coin cap.
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I think you had to.
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Based on my understanding of Moonshot, the platform in which you build it, you had to give them like 11 point some odd percent of the tokens and they provided liquidity into the ecosystem.
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As far as I can tell, do you have your coins, your 23.8% or whatever?
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Do you have those coins in like a cold, like a, like cold wallet or something, or like a in your own wallet there?
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It's not actually in the.
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It's not actually liquid in the in the marketplace.
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Is that correct?
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no, so I I bought in with, with the exact same amount that moonshot entered in with okay so I do have the liquidity in there and I do have the coins mixed up on different wallets just for security purposes, just just in case something gets compromised.
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Sure, so you, but you do.
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You do still own 23.8% of the.
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That's kind of where you're at.
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Okay.
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Yeah, so, yeah.
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So I guess the question I mean the reason why I asked this question, why I think it matters, is because the the the thing that I saw in the very beginning that really concerned me was I and I can share my screen.
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Is that do you me?
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Was I can share my screen.
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Am I allowed to share my screen?
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Is that possible?
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Yeah, we can figure it out.
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Let me see if I can do it here.
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I'll try it here.
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Oh, let's see, that's not going to do it.
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All right, it doesn't look like I can do it.
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Anyhow, there's one.
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I can just pull it up and look at it and then describe it to you.
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Just pull it up and look at it and then describe it to you and I can post it later if need be, if anybody doubts me.
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But so this is on July 13th.
00:16:28.667 --> 00:16:41.136
You have a picture of John Calvin riding a bull looking at an image of 1689 coin, and it says this I think we are all bullish on 1689 coin.
00:16:41.136 --> 00:16:51.051
Imagine that by next month we have hit our million dollar market cap and you drop a fat offering in the church plate.
00:16:51.051 --> 00:16:57.327
And so when I first saw this this is the reason that I just started to be more vocal about this issue I hadn't mentioned anything about it.
00:16:57.327 --> 00:17:09.210
Again, these projects are a dime a dozen, but the fact that this was a project that seemed to be targeted at Reformed Baptists or people who are familiar with the 1689 confession, like that, was one thing.
00:17:09.210 --> 00:17:11.073
I was like I don't know, I don't like this.
00:17:11.073 --> 00:17:34.025
But then when you, when you start to see when in you know, when you're describing like a future goal of reaching a market of a million dollar market cap like there's, you're putting numbers on this and then talking about desiring to reach that point so that either you or someone could then sell the token and withdraw liquidity and then put that in with the justification of putting in the offering plate.
00:17:34.025 --> 00:17:45.674
It just demonstrates that there's thought being had about an exit and a withdrawal of liquidity that can only come from other people who hold the tokens.
00:17:45.674 --> 00:17:50.960
So this is not like it's a zero sum game in the altcoin world.
00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:59.528
So in order for some to win, others have to lose because at the end of the day, nobody actually wants this token, nobody actually values this token.
00:17:59.528 --> 00:18:01.006
That's just the reality of these things.
00:18:01.006 --> 00:18:04.372
So when I saw that, I started just to.
00:18:04.372 --> 00:18:21.800
I mean, that's where I started to get more concerned, because that's a very different story and talking about an exit and talking about an exit plan, that's a very different thing than saying, hey, we're just going to start this as a joke and then we're going to implement this into our ecosystem and so it's actually going to have a purpose.
00:18:21.800 --> 00:18:26.604
We have a long vision here, rather than just a quick like pump and dump.
00:18:26.604 --> 00:18:33.127
Now, when I see this, this and I can, I can and you can feel free to describe whether or not you think this is accurate.
00:18:33.587 --> 00:18:37.049
My understanding like when I think about your involvement in this project.
00:18:37.049 --> 00:18:38.290
Here's what I don't think.
00:18:38.290 --> 00:18:43.913
I don't think you for a moment want to actually rug, pull your friends and other people.
00:18:43.913 --> 00:18:44.775
I don't think you want to do that.
00:18:44.775 --> 00:18:57.266
I think your hope was to get this thing big enough where you could withdraw and some of these, you could sell some of your tokens and make money and it wouldn't actually affect the life of the whole project.
00:18:57.266 --> 00:19:00.119
Because that's why a lot of people get into these things they want to make some money.
00:19:00.500 --> 00:19:02.305
And again, there's a place for making money.
00:19:02.305 --> 00:19:03.647
I don't think there's anything.
00:19:03.647 --> 00:19:20.121
There's nothing illegitimate about making money at all, but in this kind of a system like this is a very different system than if I provide you, if I were to grow a, you know, if I were to provide a service, if I were to start a company, and then I create stock shares in my company and I sell them to you.
00:19:20.121 --> 00:19:24.708
I'm actually selling you shares of something that actually exists and something that actually is a business.
00:19:24.708 --> 00:19:26.832
It's something that has some oversight to it.
00:19:26.892 --> 00:19:41.890
If it's stocks on the, on the, uh, on the, you know, whatever it is, nasdaq or whatever thing you want to have, the danger with with alt coins and mean coins is that there's, there's almost no oversight preventing people from just being able to rug and take money from from people.
00:19:41.890 --> 00:20:02.521
Uh, and there, you know, there, there's just not, it's, there's not anything actually of value other than the thing that's, you know, the, the fact that there's movement in and out of the of the ecosystem, and so, again, I think there's, I think there's re, there's, there's a reasonable, it would be reasonable for people to be skeptic, to be what's the word.
00:20:02.521 --> 00:20:08.010
I'm trying to go skeptical, skeptical and to to reconsider, to think about.
00:20:08.010 --> 00:20:10.535
Wait a second, he's already talking about exiting.
00:20:10.535 --> 00:20:12.624
Is he trying to rug us?
00:20:12.624 --> 00:20:19.672
I don't think that's what you're actually trying to do, but I would forgive people who, not knowing you, would think that.
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:20.402
Chance.
00:20:20.402 --> 00:20:21.105
What do you think about that?
00:20:21.580 --> 00:20:28.007
Well, yeah, I mean that's one post, it's a lot of reading into it and I could see your perspective.
00:20:28.007 --> 00:20:30.826
You know we have a group of guys.
00:20:30.826 --> 00:20:32.431
Like you said, nobody wants the coin.
00:20:32.431 --> 00:20:35.128
I would say that's not true.
00:20:35.128 --> 00:20:39.838
There are people who are buying the coin and they want the coin, and so there is a group of guys that do that.
00:20:39.980 --> 00:20:44.692
And so you know, obviously, before we had this conversation, I started looking up certain things.
00:20:44.692 --> 00:20:46.842
And so you know, obviously, before we had this conversation, I started looking up certain things.
00:20:46.842 --> 00:20:52.026
You know, when we have the Bitcoin and then you have 1689 coin and you make like for me.
00:20:52.026 --> 00:21:08.829
When I see you know a book written the gospel according to Bitcoin, I think of like he's trying to pull from MacArthur's section, you know, going towards the MacArthurite guys and then using Bitcoin to equivalent to the gospel, there's some red flags for me.
00:21:08.829 --> 00:21:14.051
When I see those things, I think, oh, that's borderline blast of me.
00:21:14.051 --> 00:21:20.903
When I think about that I would have to read the book to see whether, if it's not, I did a synopsis.
00:21:20.903 --> 00:21:24.130
I got the the first, I think, four devotionals for free.
00:21:24.130 --> 00:21:25.593
So I could do.
00:21:26.141 --> 00:21:27.143
I could do the.
00:21:27.143 --> 00:21:33.002
I could be very critical to you and have no charity and say, wow, dude, that's completely retarded.
00:21:33.002 --> 00:21:35.289
Or I could say I see what he's trying to do.
00:21:35.289 --> 00:21:37.803
There there's scarcity, so like limited atonement can apply.
00:21:37.803 --> 00:21:39.726
I can see what you're trying to do.
00:21:39.726 --> 00:21:45.555
I don't know if you did that, but but you know, I'm just, I'm just kind of like throwing that out there because I have no idea.
00:21:46.882 --> 00:21:49.950
Yeah, and that's a fair pushback in terms of like, at least on the surface.
00:21:49.950 --> 00:21:52.203
Again, this book is designed.
00:21:52.203 --> 00:22:06.133
So we wrote this book, that book in particular, just to outline what it is, we basically so Thank God, for Bitcoin is the other book that we wrote, which is largely just a repackaging and like a reframing of Gary work, gary North's book, honest money.
00:22:06.133 --> 00:22:09.628
So the vast majority of the book we just talk about like, what is money?
00:22:09.628 --> 00:22:10.391
Why does that matter?
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